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»»» Intellectual Property part.2 « «« «««



'Intellectual Property', what complex dynamic words. They can result in a simple dispute, or they can lead into great legal battles. Though the following is just a simple dispute, it should be evident that great sums of money, over the same type of thing, can be lost and gained.

But what is money? Just some bullshit idea that Man came up with to create debt. Now I'm straying off the subject.. Anyway, here is the latest installment on the 'SRM ownership saga' (taken from Patent Pending's own SNES SRM Archive, 98.03.17) I leave it to you to form your own opinion.

SNES SaveRAM Status (March 17, 1998 [St. Patrick's Day])
Well, here is the status of our SRM archive to date. Basically all that needs to be said right now are in the e-mails and messages between me, Deezer, and the unnamed owner. He will remain unnamed unless he requests to be named. Basically, I posted the last update in hopes that the owner of the other archive would read it. He did, so messages have been exchanged between Deezer and the owner. I have added comments in larger type.


Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:24:10 -0500
To: deezer@usa.net, megabyte@mindless.com
Subject: Hi. I understand where you're coming from now...

Hi.
I read those seven reasons that you had posted up...and I understand where you're coming from. But, those SRMs are actually mine, because the contributors submitted them to me through e-mail, and thus, they were forfeiting their property over to me.

All I have to say to that is, on your site, does it mention this statement anywhere? (not including anything you just put up in the past 3 days or so.)

But anyway, enough of that legal crap. Personally, I hate legalities too, but I had to use them to get you and all those other sites to get rid of my SRMs and my Source code (which is unique...go ahead and compare our tables, they're almost exactly the same...not to mention the same filenames...the same contributors..and the same descriptions....word for word.)

The source code was completely original, except for the table entries. As for the filenames, Deezer has already stated that he d/l'd them from the SRM Pit, which d/l'd them from your site, so the filenames retained their names.

Just to give you some kind of idea that I'm an actual 3-dimensional human being with a soul...I'll give u some info about myself. I'm a 15 year-old sophomore from New Jersey. I started making webpages when I was 13, and I created graphics since I was 14. I created the Snes SaveRAM Archive, the Genecyst SaveState Archive and the Snes9X Snapshot Archive somewhere around early 1997 in response to the creation of fLipino's NESticle SaveGame Archive. So...I pretty much made these archives to establish some kind of presence in the emulation scene. I'm sure u know what I'm talking about. Anyway, one week after I created and posted up these sites, Zophar of Zophar's Domain created a Genecyst SaveState Archive as well. He got more SaveStates than I did, so I decided to give all my SaveStates to him, and I shut down my Genecyst SaveGame Archive section. Next...my Snes9X Snapshot archive was doing great, but I was soon losing the capability to hold the snapshots, since they were too large in file size. The discontinuation of Snes9X was the catalyst. I closed my Snes9X Snapshot Archive soon after Snes9X was discontinued. In fact, people still come to my site in search of the deleted Snes9X SaveState Archive. But, I kept my Snes SaveRAM Archive going, since people still used them, and the savegames were pretty small in filesize. Until this day, I continue to maintain the Snes SaveRAM Archive, which is now being renamed the Snes SaveGame Archive, and the site has undergone a move from my original URL...

Yes, all of this is nice. I myself am a sophomore, and started web design and graphics when I was 13, but what does any of this matter? BTW, still got your S9X archive? Maybe we can make a compromise...

You know, I can't expect you to rely on my "word," so frankly, I don't know what to do. You can't possibly trust someone who's face you can't see and whose voice you can't hear. So, I have no choice but to try to disprove your theories.

We do trust your word on this, but that doesn't mean we agree with it, even if we did meet face-to-face.

Anyway, let's take this one step at a time...
>1. Not ALL of the files came from his archive.
Yeah, two of 'em are yours. The rest are mine. Really.

Yes the rest are from your archive. We do not deny that.

>2. If they are public on the net, we have every right to post them. _It is NOT stealing._
...but the contributors forfeited their SRMs to me. When you contribute money to someone, you're giving it to them. You can't take the money back.

But really.. this isn't money..

>3. He obviously did not create those (or most anyway) SRMs, so he has no right to tell us to take them down
I own them, but I only created maybe 2 or 3 of them. I have my rights according to the copyright laws. (copyright laws state that ORIGINAL material may be copyrighted as the sole property of the owner...since the contributors gave the SRMs to me, they are my original material. ...and obviously, the HTML code is my material. You simply can't argue that. If you get anyone to compare our tables...you'll see that they're exactly the same except for the cell color and the far-left column. In fact one time, a ripper didn't even attempt to try to make the HTML code look like his. It was an exact duplicate.

Well, as for copyrights.. maybe you should take a look at my article 'Intellectual Property'. Maybe I'm wrong, if so, please find the exact law statement regarding this so I can fix my article. For HTML, I'll have you know that I created those tables (minus the descriptions) from SCRATCH. Just because it looked the same (as long as the source is different) it doesn't mean it was copied. It was a good layout. We liked it, so we modeled it after yours.

>4. He IS credited on the Credits page and perhaps should be put on the SRM index itself.
If I am credited, why was I not aware of it? In fact, why would I be credited if you claim that you got the SRMs from the SRM Pit? Bang. Oh yeah, and even so, who looks at the Credits page? You should have given credit to me on the actual page itself, and you should have alerted me of it.

I think Deezer has cleared this up.

>5. He has no right to tell us to delete the page either that YOU created, not him.
Nope..someone stole my HTML code and altered it only the slightest bit. Compare. You can't deny it.

SOMEONE may have. Not us. I am denying it. Our HTML writing styles aren't even similar.

>6. Fuck, if we have to, lets contact the contributors themselves.
Go ahead, this is probably the only way to prove myself right.
Here are some of the contributor's e-mail addresses:
alamone: alamone@iname.com
JohnMOG1: JohnMOG1@aol.com
I'm sorry that I don't have any other e-mail addresses, but those are all that I could find. I don't keep track of e-mail addresses.

You can be sure we do, not to verify you, but to get permission to use their SRMs.

>7. It's up to you, but I say that we not take them down. What's he going to do about it anyway? If you don't want things >'stolen', don't put them up, and kiss up to your local CDA rep... hehehe
Yeah, I guess I can't do much about it except file a copyright infringement report. But I won't do that...so you seem to have some bit of a heart, but maybe I'd do it to the guy from the SRM Pit, since he's a fucking jerk. But you know what? I'm not gonna tell you to take them down because I'm threatening you with Copyright shit, but I'm gonna tell you to keep them down because your conscience says so. No matter what happenned, SOMEONE copied off of me, and someone copied off of the guy who copied off of me. That's a fact. So, do yourself a favor and retain your dignity by not stealing from others.

Again.. it is not _truly_ copyrighted, and it is not stealing! (in our views anyway)

You know what? I know the following respectable people in the emulation scene: ~* aStROcReEp 2000 *~, TyphoonZ (creator of Archaic Ruins), alamone (savegame maintainer of Zophar's Domain), and Lance McKay (creator of EmuXPress).
If you want, go ahead and e-mail them and ask about my integrity. You alreayd have alamone's e-mail address, and Lance McKay and TyphoonZ's e-mail addresses can both be found on their websites.

Are you trying to scare us or something? I know top emu people too.. I don't need to ask about your integrity. Maybe that is what is wrong in _your_ view.. We do not deny that the SRMs came from your site. We do not deny that you made _that_ HTML source. We DO deny the morality of 'hording'(for lack of better term) 'your' SRMs.

ps-if u still have some sort of argument...e-mail me again and let's arrange some sort of meeting in an IRC chatroom...or ICQ...or AOL Instant Messenger...or something. I have to prove to you that that HTML source is mine, and that the SRMs are as well.

I'd like to, but I have no internet.. Again, you don't have to prove your HTML source, we agree that it is yours.

pss-thank you for changing the html source code...the code's actually superior to mine in some way's...oh well. and thanks again for taking off my SRMs.

Thanks about the HTML, yes, one doesn't have a commercial webmastering job for nothing.

psss-I don't see why one would steal someone else's material just for their own glory...I just can't comprehend that kind of lack of morality...

Glory, heh. That is certainly not what we compiled Patent Pending for. We are a service, just as Archaic Ruins and Emu News Service. We are here, as Y0SHi states, "To have fun." BTW, it's not stealing!!

Now here is Deezer's e-mail reply to him.

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 23:00:24
From: deezer@usa.net
To: megabyte@mindless.com
Subject: Re: [Hi. I understand where you're coming from now...]

Uhhh okay let me clear something up. When we were starting the save game portion of Patent Pending, I knew of BOTH your site and the SRM Pit. I downloaded the SRMs from the SRM Pit, because the download speeds were a bit faster (this is why in my reply I told you that I got the SRMs from the SRM Pit, because, well, I did). MEGAߥTE directed me to your site before we started archiving the SRMs, which is probably why he credited your site in the Credits section. I let this go because the SRM Pit was obviously a blatant rip-off of your site. I never had any doubt that your site was the original.

-"In a profanity-riddled e-mail,
someone ... asked me to remove 'his' SRMs."

The reason I put "his" in quotes like that was referring to the fact that most of, if not all, the SRMs were NOT made by you. I hope this clears up THAT confusion.

Off the subject, sorry, but in response to one of your replies to me, "fuck" would be considered profanity too.

-Deezer

P.S. Have you seen the SRM Pit's latest/last update? LOL. That guy either deserves the Pulitzer Prize or a swift kick to the head.

I stand behind everything Deezer says. Apparently this guy truly doesn't "understand where you're coming from" because he tries to prove his site was the original, which is not our argument.

Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 16:50:59 -0500
To: megabyte@mindless.com, deezer@usa.net
Subject: more evidence...

Go there...
http://members.aol.com/emunews/newsarchives.htm
then click August 1997
then do a search for the word "SaveRAM"
smack. my site.

oh yeah...if u claim that u didn't steal my SRMs, then are u saying that those contributors sent the SRMs to both u and the guy from the SRM Pit? hmm..I find u less and less believeable as time passes...

..And, Deezer's reply.

From: deezer@usa.net
To: megabyte@mindless.com
Subject: Re: [more evidence...]

LOL still on this subject? Like I said, the SRM Pit was a blatant rip-off. I never stated that I believed that your site was not the original. See my previous e-mail if this is still unclear to you.

Don't put words in my mouth. I gave credit to the contributors who spent their time making the SRMs. MEGAߥTE gave you credit in the Credits section.

Finally there was this..

To: deezer@usa.net
Subject: Re: [more evidence...]
sorry, this message got delivered a bit late.
it wasn't even supposed to be sent..actually.

everything's cool, right?


This is the argument so far. "Information should be free." ...and to distribute; and to me, this qualifies as information, electronic as it may be...

I mean, really, all this BS over a bunch of SRMs.. well, sometimes life is like that I guess.. emulation can be like life in many ways, this being just one of the lower points. All I can say, is that I hope things turn out better in the future, and that people would wake up. "Why can't we all just get along?" Just because. We can't, it's human nature, and we, of course are only human.

--=MEGAߥTE,
March 17, 1998; amended March 18, 1998


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